From Grammy Nominee to "Homeless": Paul Coleman’s Journey to Identity
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Paul: I'll give... I'll, I'll just give you a verse and chorus of it This song is meant to sound like a note that you don't want to get out of
Are you gonna let me love you? When are you gonna let me in?
Gonna let me love you Try it all day today. And tomorrow I'll do it all over again
But you're a bowl, but you're a bowl, but you're, but you're a bowl, but you're a bowl of condemnation. But you're a bowl... One sec. But you're a bowl of condemnation. What chord is it? Um, don't feel bad for me. I, I absolutely don't care right now. I'm just gonna get this right. But you're a bowl of condemnation.
Constant need of affirmation. Runs to isolation. Yes, you are. I got it. But I'm a wave of adoration. That's gonna break in your direction. I'm the voice of resurrection. Yes, I am. So when are you gonna let me love you?
Are you gonna let me in? When are you gonna let me love you? I tried all day today, and tomorrow, I'll do it all over again. So I tried to write a song from God's perspective to me, which is very dangerous. It's much better to do what Christian artists do, and that's just copy the Bible, put chords to it, and then just write your name on the bottom 'cause it's out of copyright. But I tried to, um... But, um, words of music. Chris Tomlin. But anyway, I might- it might have been King David. That's fine. But I tried to write a song, you know, like, "When are you gonna let me love you? Uh, when, when are you gonna let me in? When are you gonna let me love you? 'Cause I've tried all day today, and tomorrow I'll do it all over again." Yeah. "You're a wave of... You're a ball of condemnation, um, trying to fight for my affection. You're..." Whatever. So, um, what was the question again?
Kevin: Younger self. That's what
Paul: I would say. That was especially younger self. I would say, I would say, um, I would say exactly what I said to Dan and Roz's kids. Um, and they got married two day, three days ago.
Right up back there, right there. Give us, give them a wave. Come on, give them a wave. Give them a wave. Kevin: Congratulations,
Paul: guys. And, uh, I sang at their wedding because truly, more than anything, I'm a wedding singer. That is the truth. That's what I am. Um, anybody? Uh, but when I left their kids, I looked in their eyes and I told them, "You are such a great kid.
You are so fantastic." And if I had been able to receive that despite all, all the, what I see in my mirror, if I could have understood that the God of this universe says, "Listen, I'm the perfect parent. Uh, the feminine, the masculine, I love you. And just so you know, you don't have to do anything for that.
Who you are is enough." Kevin: That would've been good to get at the start. Yes. That would've changed everything.
Paul: Although, I have also, through therapy and prayer and help and books and music and people reminding me, I have also forgiven myself for not knowing that. And that's been one of the hardest things, to forgive myself. Um, but Jesus said, "Love others as you love yourself." That's Kevin: correct. Paul: So if you don't love others, well, hear it from your Uncle Paul. Look in the mirror and say, "Hey, listen, I forgive you. God help me forgive myself. Help me to see myself the way you see me," because then that's a, that's a game changer. But I, I'm not gonna lie.
It's taken me a long time, and I'm still... I'm closer than before, but I'm sitting here right now, I can genuinely tell you that I'm closer than I've ever been to living in that. Kevin: Mate, thank you so much for being so honest and open with us. Paul: Oh, I could've been way more honest Kevin: than that. That's just, yeah. You, you can't, you can't be too open.
We haven't got a profanity buzzer. No, we're just kidding. Um-
Paul: Profanity Kevin: buzzer?
Paul: Was I profane? Kevin: No, no, just saying that-
Paul: I did mouth one, didn't I? Sorry about that. You see, in church, you can gossip but you can't swear. Uh, and honestly, if you had to pick one-
Kevin: Yeah, no ... Paul: gossip's way worse. Kevin: It is, right.
Paul: And- I'm not saying we should swear.
No emails, please. Oh, wait. Kevin: I love your heart, man.
Paul: Sorry about that.
Kevin: There we go. Sorry. Paul: This is the talking microphone. I told Kevin: you. But I, I do wanna do one more thing. Um, I asked you, we asked you to bring something that w- was sentimental value to you, and you told me, "I don't have any sentimental value-
Paul: Thanks for saving Kevin: this to the end
sentimental value except for one person. So, uh, I'm gonna put that photo up now. So, um, you wanna talk a little bit about... 'Cause we asked someone to bring an object, and he said, "I don't, I'm not sentimental about objects," but this lady here
And you warned me it might be difficult.
Paul: I'm not, I, I'm, I don't feel difficult, I don't feel embarrassed, I don't feel ashamed. Um, she's just the person that showed me what unconditional love was, and she still does. I'm living with her right now in a retirement village.
Kevin: Those concerts Paul: should be interesting.
I was shopping with her the other day and I heard a bone crack and I forgot where I, I forgot where I was. I was like, I felt so bad. It sort of gave me a nice ... Um, yeah, she's the person, she's the one that showed me unconditional love. And in August, she travels with me. I just, I just drag her around seven countries in Europe in 19 days. Um, and she's, was in the States with me before that, and she's coming back to the States with me, so it'll be five months together. And, um, and, and, uh, at this festival, um, outside of Boston, uh, on the Thursday night on the main stage, I'm second to the closing act. Um, don't care who they are, they're opening for me.
Um, joking. That's just a joke. Just a joke. Just an Aussie joke. Uh, but I've, I wrote a song for her called My Little Hero, and, um, I'm gonna sit her on a stool on the stage and sing it to her. Aw. And I've got a, a queen's cape that I'm gonna put on her, then I'm gonna slow dance with her. Aw. And, uh, 'cause she's my little hero and, and, and she's so zany, and she's so funny, and she is just love personified. She hugs her way from one side of the world to the other. She walked up to this, uh, African American guy outside Starbucks in an airport in North Carolina, and she goes, "Want a hug?" And he's like, "Huh?" She just hugged him. The guy just melted. You know, and, uh, she's just the, oh, five foot two inch wrecking ball of God's love. That's what she is. And so the chorus says, "And, and when I get to heaven, I'm gonna knock right on her door, 'cause she put all her treasures there. Not, not, not in the world before. And the, and the m- and the Savior will, um, put a crown on her and says, 'Welcome home, my kiddo. What a day that'll be for you, my little hero.'"
Did I just say that I love that noise? Kevin: Yeah.
Paul: Because- So do we ... it's just, um, I love that, I love the fact, I j- I just, I like when the kids are running around, too. I just, I like, I like disorder sometimes, and I like order as well. But I hear the Lord, I hear the Lord in that cry, you know? Yeah. And sometimes it's people that have less ability that show us so much more of God's love than when we're clever. Um, I just wanted to mention that. But, but yeah, she's, she's my little hero. She's... And if you've ever met my mum, anyone here met my mum? Well, you need to. If you need love, she's- Bring Kevin: her next time.
Paul: Yeah. I might actually charge because- ... I might be able to afford a, I might be able to afford my own pla- Yeah, but she's, she's it. She is it. A Wel- Welsh woman.
Kevin: So before we wrap this up, is there, is there anything that you wanna talk about? The... Anything else that you wanna talk about? Or is there a song or something that you'd like to wind it up with?
Paul: Well, I'll tell you what I'd like to do. I'd like to come back here and do my own show at some point. 'Cause this is a great room because it's wide, so you don't, you're not looking down. So maybe, uh, hmm, maybe in December, January, or February. This is a bit sneaky, isn't it, Peter? Yeah, sort of.
Kevin: You just worked Paul: yourself Kevin: into a gig, man. Paul: Win the crowd maximus.
Kevin: You just, you, you manipulated the pastor to get a gig. You like that?
Paul: I sure did. Proud of it. No. Uh Do you want a song to leave with? You want a song? All right
Sam, what an encourager. Good man, Sam. I am Sam I am
Oh, mate
The one about my mum? Yeah. No, I won't go through that. It goes, um, wanna tell you about my little hero. She's a five foot two inch wrecking ball. She's an atom bomb of love. In all the right ways, she's a little bit of a weirdo. But to the desperate heart learning, she's a true gift from above. When I get to heaven, I'm gonna knock right on her door. She put all her treasure in that world not before. And the Savior will put a crown on her and say, "Welcome home, my kiddo." Oh, what a day, what a day that'll be for you. Yeah, my little hero.
Okay, one more song. Uh, the best thing about this song is I didn't write it and, uh, and it's one of my favorite songs to sing. But the funny thing is when I was, uh, in Europe one time I was staying with some people and I'd just put out a new album, my last album. And the lady said to me, she goes, "You know, I like your new album, but I much prefer your songwriting on this song." And I didn't write it.
Kevin: Perfect.
Paul: I didn't tell her. It's called If I Was Jesus If I was Jesus, I'd have some real long hair A robe and some sandals is exactly what I'd wear. I'd be the guy at the party turning water to white grape juice. Yeah, me and my disciples, we'd have a real good time
If I was Jesus, I'd have some friends that were poor. I'd run around with the wrong crowd. Man, I'd never be bored. I was thinking of you I would heal me a blind man, get myself crucified by politicians and preachers, not you, who got something to hide
I was G
Flowers tea I come back from the dead Walk on some water just to mess with your head. I know your darkened secrets. I look you right in the face. And I tell you I love you with amazing grace
I don't have a sound guy, so I have to do that myself. I begin here in a door
While I was hanging on your cross
If I was Jesus
Kevin: Straight into it, another one wrong. Another one bites the dust Paul: Rando.
Kevin: There we go. It's all in there, man. It's good fun.
Paul: Let's just play One Direction. I went with Queen. Kevin: Well, mate, thank you so much.
Paul: Yeah. Kevin: Would you thank Paul- Thank you ... for just coming and just sharing. And we will take you up on that, um, on that gig. Paul: No, I'd like to because, um, if you just- Totally. Uh, that's ADD. Do, does it happen to you and you just go, "What was that noise?" Yeah. "Something, some squirrel." Uh, I think if you can, it... I, I love, I love Aussies so much. I just love how rough around the edges we are. And I like how Aussies just, if it's religion, they're just, it's not just they're not interested, they're violently not interested. I respect that. But if it's not, if it's, if it's something there, they're into it. And I've experienced that my whole life over here. So my advice would be, let's do a show here. Firstly, that'll help me. But, um- ... of course, I'll give it to the poor. I know. But, yeah, but also-
Kevin: But you're homeless. You are the poor. Paul: Hey, I, I'll give it to myself. The Paul Coleman Retirement Fund. Let's start it up. Give generously. Uh, no, but invite, invite, buy tickets for a couple of people who, uh, would never think they could come to a church building and laugh and have fun. Yeah. Because that's kind of, they're my sweet spot, those people. You know, like, like the Roman centurion that Jesus said of a pagan pantheistic Roman centurion, "I've not seen greater faith in the whole country." Kevin: That's right.
Paul: That's like him saying it to Mick Jagger.
Kevin: Yeah. Paul: That, that might be a stretch, but you just be the preacher and finish it off. I, I'm starting to get a bit too off track.
Kevin: Hang on, would you guys just thank Paul? Paul: They already did. That's enough. Kevin: Thank you. Well, thank you, Paul. You can disappear, brother. Paul: Really? Kevin: Yeah, get out of here. Go on, get out of here, brother. Take your phone. Take your capo. Oh, no, I got your capo.
Kevin: Okay, so welcome to Up Close and Personal. This is where we get behind the scenes of someone's life. We always know what's going on. We see the highlights and all that kind of thing. But what are the things that have happened? What are the things that have transpired through life that's got them to the place where they are today? So it's the power of story, and I believe that when you learn to really deeply listen to someone's story, you actually learn a little bit more about your own story, and you catch glimpses of actually the bigger story that is going on as well. So would you please welcome our guest today, Mr. Paul Coleman.
Do I have to say Alt-Rocker? Paul: Say whatever you want, mate.
Kevin: Doesn't matter. You say whatever you want. Kevin: I love you, man. Give me a hug We could, we could be brothers. Well, we are brothers actually, now I think about it.
Paul: How old are you? Kevin: Uh, tw... 46.
Paul: No, seriously.
Kevin: 64. 58.
Paul: Same.
Kevin: Oh, mate. We're on the s- we're on the same- Ish.
Ish. You're 58-ish?
Paul: No, same-ish.
Kevin: Same-ish. Mate, so, um, we just like to start things off a little bit. You can just help position him there. Just random fire questions, and you said y- you're good for anything like that. You can basically handle anything. Paul: Well, my media training is it doesn't matter what you ask me, I'll just say whatever I wanna say anyway. Kevin: Yeah, there it is. So that's exactly what I love. Isn't that what
Paul: politicians do? Kevin: So here's some rapid fire things for you. What was your first paid job? Paul: Umpiring indoor cricket.
Kevin: Umpiring indoor cricket? Is that still a thing anymore? Do they do indoor cricket?
Paul: Just watch this. Professional. Leg side. And then I cleaned toilets at the Red Cross Hospital over night.
Kevin: Ah. Paul: I'm still doing that. Not as good a job.
Kevin: So what's your favorite color? Paul: Blue.
Kevin: Food?
Paul: Uh, everything. Um.
Kevin: Music style? Paul: No, hang on, hang on. I've gotta go back. Kevin: lamb roast. Paul: And yesterday I was with the Seventh Day Adventist. I didn't mention that. Kevin: You didn't mention it there.
Paul: They're vegos. They might be a heretic, you know. Kevin: What's your favorite music style?
Paul: I just like good songs.
Kevin: Right. Paul: I think, uh, I was interested in what you were saying there. Uh, music seems to be either running towards find- trying to find something true, or it's just kinda running away from it and just being sort of decadent. So I don't care what style it is. If I feel like the artist is reaching for meaning, I like it. Kevin: Right. Cool.
Paul: So- Generally, I don't like '80s hair metal much at all. Kevin: No, neither do me, neither do me. No. I've never had the hair for it. Paul: I don't know.
Kevin: No.
Paul: You were an old rocker, so just ... I know you're asking the questions and they're rapid fire-
Kevin: Yeah Paul: but you fronted a band, I heard. Kevin: Yeah, yeah. Was just a covers band.
Paul: What was your favorite song to sing? Kevin: Uh, I, I really can't say.
Paul: K-San?
Kevin: Nah, nah. AC/DC. Nah. Yeah, AC/DC. Paul: Everybody Wants To Work. Kevin: Everybody Wants To Work.
Paul: Okay. Kevin: Sorry, I know that you're asking the questions.
Paul: No, no, that's okay. Go ahead. Kevin: My bad, my bad.
So what, while we're on that, what about musical influences, like before you started writing? Like, who did you listen to?
Paul: Well, most people would not have heard of my musical hero. His name's Larry Norman.
Kevin: Right. Yeah. Okay. I...
Paul: What, what I loved about this guy was that he sang songs about everything. Back in those days, in the '60s when he started, it was before this thing became Christian music, which is a genre. Which is a weird adjective to put f- p- put before the word music because- you're sort of telling people what they're supposed to experience instead of... Anyway, but, uh, I just loved him because he, the, uh, the, the, his lyrics were about everything. He actually wrote about his divorces, and he wrote about his pain, but he also wrote straight up gospel songs. One of his songs , Why Don't You Look Into Jesus, has the reference to a transmitted disease. Kevin: Oh, serious?
Paul: Oh, yeah.
Kevin: Wow. Paul: on his podcast last year. He's like, "Listen to this song," and he, he would say some of the lyrics, and he's like, "This is a gospel song." Kevin: Yeah.
Paul: So he was my hero. Kevin: And so and if, if any of youse are getting confused, Larry Norman is not Greg Norman, the golfer's brother, right? I gotta just clear that up for you.
Paul: No, Kevin: no. Okay. Kevin: So look, look, let's go a few more. T- favorite TV show growing up?
Paul: Seinfeld.
Kevin: Seinfeld. Paul: Giddy up.
Kevin: Giddy up. Um, cartoon character?
Did you have a cartoon character?
Paul: Yes? Oh, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm trying this thing my therapist helped me with. It's called think before you speak. Apparently people got onto it a lot earlier than I did. Uh, favorite cartoon character I think was the Roadrunner.
Kevin: Oh, yeah. Right. Paul: Very violent though, don't you think, when you think about it?
Extremely violent. Very violent. Extremely
Kevin: violent, yeah.
Paul: Yeah.
Kevin: So what's your earliest childhood memory? Paul: My mother asked me when I was four what I wanted to be when I grew up, and I said musical clown. And I made it. I did it. Kevin: I was gonna say, she was prophetic. Paul: I did it. I am a musical clown.
Kevin: Oh, that's cool. Those two go together, man. You gotta have music, you gotta have fun together. If you don't, it's, like, boring.
Right, here we go. Paul: Where's this bloke been all my life?
Kevin: Yeah. Kevin: So who did you write your first love letter to?
Paul: Everyone got asked that?
Kevin: Yeah. Paul: I'm only pretending to be uncomfortable. I know the answer. We, we went up to, uh, Taree foster area. And, uh, I was about 15. I walked down the beach at night, snuck out of the place, and, uh, sat at the campfire, and there was this girl there. And you know, I was 15, I just looked at her. Again, I don't think I even talked to her, but I left a love letter in her letterbox. Kevin: Really?
Paul: Yeah.
Kevin: Did you ever follow that up?
Paul: No.
Kevin: Right. Paul: No. Kevin: Fair enough. No. Okay. Kevin: If you could be s- If you could be someone else for a day, anyone, anywhere, anytime for a day, who would you pick and why? Paul: They're good questions, aren't they?
Kevin: Wait till you see the next one.
Paul: Judas. Kevin: You'd wanna be Judas?
Paul: Yeah. I wanna understand the vibe, you know?
Kevin: Yeah. Right. Paul: No, not Judas. That's a stupid answer. Kevin: I think it's a great answer. I mean, like, the guy, like you're with Jesus for three years and you're still going to screw it up so badly. I mean, like, I think it's a good answer. Paul: they didn't like Judas. They cut me off. No, I think, um, that Judas is fascinating, you know- 'cause without him it wouldn't have happened, and yet I don't really understand. Like, I know the classic story is that Judas killed himself and didn't make it in the end, but I'm not sure. Like, I don't know. Um, what, what was he thinking at the end? Like, did he repent or ... And then he just ended his life 'cause he just couldn't take the shame. I don't know. I know the classical view is if you do that, it's over. But I'm not, I'm not too sure. But then again, I'm not an academic theologian, so no emails to the pastor, please. It's just a thought. Kevin: Oh. Paul: Just an idea. Kevin: I, I won't say where I land theologically, but I think we'll be surprised about who we might see in there and who we might not. I'll just leave it at that. How about that one?
Paul: As you were.
Kevin: As you were. Kevin: Okay. So here we go. This is, this is one of our, our youth like on their podcast used to do on a regular basis. Uh, who ... It's a would you rather. Would you rather fight 100 duck-sized horses- Duck-sized horses. Duck-sized horses. Paul: Like duck-size.
Kevin: Yes. Okay. Duck-size or one horse-sized duck? Paul: Being an old guy, I wanna take on 100 ducks because I think I've got a better chance Kevin: Very good. I didn't know how to answer that when they asked me. What did you Paul: say? Kevin: I didn't really. I didn't have a clue. I thought, I thought this is a silly question. Paul: It is really.
Kevin: Yeah. But, uh, but- Paul: It's random. Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, it is random. Kevin: So, um, people don't know who you are, so we might get you to do at least do a song just-
Paul: Actually, my therapist told me and I wrote it down. Kevin: Really? You know who you are? But you, you, you have a bit of a reputation for, like, being quite good at telling jokes. So that's
You, you got any jokes?
Paul: I do have one.
Kevin: Really? Paul: Okay. So there's this guy, he's 65, he's retired.
Kevin: Hang on, that's too close to my age, man. Paul: Very young man, 65. He, uh, he's retired and, and unfortunately his beautiful wife passed away a few years before, but he's starting to heal. And he's got some money saved up. His kids are all set up, and so he, uh, he's sitting with his kids one day and they go, "Dad, what are you gonna do?" And he goes, "I don't know." They're like, "What, what makes your heart come alive?" And he goes, "I've always wanted to do deep sea fishing." They're like, "Do it." Paul: So he gets the whole stuff.
He gets the boat, he does the course, he gets the compasses, the maps, the whatever they're called, the anchors, the, the reels, everything. He heads out 80 kilometers into the Pacific Ocean. And he's having the time of his life pulling in tuna and barracuda and swordfish and whatever other fish out there. And he's having a great time. One day he looks up and he sees what he thinks is land, and he looks at the map and he's, there's no land supposed to be here. Picks up binoculars. Sure enough, there's land. He starts heading towards it. And as he gets closer, he sees a guy on the beach jumping up and down. And the guy looks like Tom Hanks from, uh- Kevin: Cast Away. Paul: Thank you. Kevin: Yeah.
Paul: From Cast Away. And he rocks up to the guy. He's like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I'm finally saved. This is amazing. How'd you find me?" He goes, "I was just rambling." He goes, "I, I've been here 10 years. No one's come to find me." He says, "Well, I'm not surprised. It's not even on the map, mate." He said, "Well, can you take me back to land?" "Of course I can. Hop in." "Well, first can I get some stuff from my house?" "Oh, right." Paul: So the guy anchors the boat and they walk in through the jungle about 10 or 15 minutes. And at this point he's thinking, "Is, am I gonna get done in here? Is this real?" But they come into this clearing and there's three huts.
He says, "What, what's, what are these?" He goes, "That's my house right there, the first one." "Yeah." He says, "That's where I shelter, you know, from the hurricanes, and I've got a few things that I wanna take with me." "And what?" And he goes, "What's that one?" He goes, "That's my church." And he goes, "Your church?" He goes, "Yeah, I grew up going to church, and so I built one." And he goes, "Well, what's that third one?" He goes, "Uh, that's the church I used to go to." Kevin: Okay. That's good. That's good. That's good.
Paul: I got better jokes, but not for here. Kevin: Well yeah. Well, we wanna know who Paul Coleman is. Paul: Well, what that really means is I lost.
Kevin: Oh. Paul: You're welcome. Kevin: Right. Paul: All right. So I'll sing you a song. A Song of the Sea. Birds eye, fish fingers.
Kevin: You remember that?
Paul: I do. I'm old. Kevin: Nice guitar.
Paul: Yeah, this is a great guitar. I like this one. Kevin: How long you had that one?
Paul: Uh, three years. Paul: It's acoustic, but it's feels electric
Paul: So this is a, this is, um, wherever I am, I introduce this differently. But when I was recently in Dublin, I called it an Irish drinking song. Um, contextually, that's where I was, in a pub in Ireland, so I called it that. But it really, actually, um, I wrote this in the middle of one of the deepest depressions I'd ever had. I'd just got separated, heading towards divorce. I was living on my own in a friend's pool house. My kids were with their mum. I just was so deeply in depression, and I, I, um, I heard a lot of voices. Some of my friends say I'm a nice bunch of people. I had a lot of voices in my head, but I sort of narrowed it down to two, and one said, "Your best days are behind you." And the other voice said, "No, the best is yet to come." And I knew it was God's voice 'cause he had an American accent. So I thought that's, that's what he'll- Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm hearing, Kevin: yeah. Paul: Actually, it was Welsh.
Kevin: It was a Welsh voice.
Paul: My man. Kevin: You can bet the farm on that one, if it's a Welsh voice. Paul: Yeah, my mother's Welsh, so. Boyo. So I, I decided to write a song about that voice, and as I was writing it, I remembered being in, in Ireland and when, when you see them singing in a pub and they've got the, the bodhrán... What's it called? Paul: Bodhrán. Bodhrán. Bodhrán. What's Kevin: a bodhrán?
Paul: It's like a little thing. It looks like a tambourine, but without the thing that, and you hit it with a thing or whatever. Anyway, it's like It's that vibe.
Kevin: Let's just go with tambourine. Paul: All right, let's just do the song. Tambo. Yeah. Paul: I- if it's an Irish drinking song, it's not a get smashed song. It's one cheeky drink Maybe two light beers. A glass of wine. It's not about, it's not about getting trashed, it's about celebration. So you could have Ribena, it doesn't matter.
Paul: Oh, come hear a story. Oh, come gather friends. I'll tell you a tale, but it isn't done yet. You saints and you sinners, you daughters and sons, the best is yet to come Here once was a valley that led to a storm. Both were a darkness as real as a war. Leaving us broken with nowhere to run. But the best is yet to come.
Sing that with me. Yeah, the best is yet to come. Yes, so lift up your glasses. Raise them on high. Here's to the failure we- Future, 'cause it's just begun. All the best, yeah, the best, yeah, the best. The best is yet to come. Hey! Yeah, the best is yet to come
Yeah, we'll drown out the voices inside of our heads. And we'll bury the critics as though they were dead. And we'll prove to the cynics who said it can't be done, that the best is yet to come. Sing it with me. Yeah, the best is yet to come. Yeah, so lift up your glasses, raise them on high. Here's to the failure-
Future, 'cause it's just begun. All the best, yeah, the best, yeah, the best. The best is yet to come. Hey! The best is yet to come. Hey!
This is our story, but not where it ends. As long as we're breathing, it isn't done yet. Let's toast to the battles we haven't yet won
Raise them on high.
'Cause it's just begun. All the best, yeah, the best, yeah, the best. The best is yet to come. Kevin: Hey!
Paul: The best is yet to come. Kevin: Hey! Paul: Yes. Yeah, the best is yet to come. Kevin: Hey! Paul: Yeah, the best is yet to come
Kevin: It's hard, isn't it, on a Sunday morning to do that kind of gig? Paul: Yeah, a lot of prayer.
Kevin: A lot of prayer?
Paul: A lot of prayer. Kevin: I know, but I, I feel thirsty. I really want a drink bad.
Paul: You know what? Normally, actually, um, a lot of places I send out a rider and I say, you know, "At a certain point I'd like a cup of tea," but it rarely, rarely happens. Kevin: Would you like a cup of tea?
Paul: Oh, depends how quick you can get it to me. Kevin: Ah. Ruthie's looked. She's up. Oh, look at that.
Paul: You got it. Oh my gosh. Pauline. Paul: God bless the Goldie, eh?
Kevin: Yeah. Kevin: I noticed I didn't get anything. I've taken that servant thing too far. Kevin: So we wanna know a little bit more now about who, who is Paul Coleman then? I mean, who is, who is he? Where is he living? What's an average week look like for you? Paul: Well, I have been homeless for three and a half years. I have not had a home. Paul: My kids and their mom, they, they grew up in, they grew up in Tennessee, and so when my... We tried a few times to move back to Australia, but we could never agree on the terms. And so when my youngest daughter turned 18, uh, she and her sister, and, uh, these are their names by the way. Kevin: You, you got their names on your arm.
Paul: That's how I remember them, yep. Paul: Okay, so that's my... That's Katie is the, Katie is the taller one, and Ellie is the younger one, and that's me and my sister and my mom and dad. My dad passed away in my arms two years ago. He and I had to fight very hard for our friendship, um, but we, we were great friends the last 20 odd years. My mom's, my mom is my hero. She's the person that showed me unconditional love. Uh, what was the question? My, where do I live? What do I do?
Kevin: What's an average week look like? Paul: Well, when they left, I got rid of my place 'cause I didn't know where I was gonna live. Still don't know. And so I just thought it was stupid for me to have furniture and a TV and a couch where I just never was. So I've really just been on the road for three and a half years, and I make friends pretty well, and so I've got friends everywhere, all around the world that I can stay with. So I just, if I've got a gig here and the next one's there, I just call up someone who lives there. Kevin: I was gonna say, like, I had a few years on the road touring. Paul: But I've got Willow for the cricket, and I've got all the apps for AFL, and rugby, of course. Kevin: No one follows anything around here, mate. We're, uh, we're totally off sport. Paul: Really? No.
Kevin: No. Wait, Paul: but Kevin: I Paul: want you to know my team is Carlton, and it's, we haven't had a premiership since '95, but the last time I was away for a long time and I came back in 2023, we won 13 games in a row, and I've been back two weeks, and we've won the last two, and we lost the previous eight. Paul: So all I'm saying is, you're welcome. Kevin: So you being back in town is causing them to win? Kevin: Look at that. G- go back to the photo of the girls. Uh, uh, DePaul and the girls. Mate, look at... You all have the same teeth and smile. Paul: America. Paul: They look like their mum, which is an actual blessing. Paul: They follow Mum, but they didn't follow you? Paul: Thank goodness for that. No, that, she's a good mum, and she's a good lady. But, um, but yeah, they look more like her than me, and I praise God for that on a weekly basis. Paul: They're cheeky like me. Kevin: Are they cheeky? Paul: She's the cheekiest one. Paul: I used to teach her at restaurants when, when the waiter would say, "What would you like to drink?" "G&T, thanks." And I'd go, "Oh." She was, like, nine. She never did it. Paul: No. No, l- well, let's, let's, let's delve a little bit more into your backstory. How about that? Okay. Kevin: So, 'cause we all know that you're a songwriter. Great songs. Every song has a first verse.
So what was your first verse like when you were growing up? So you grew up in the Coleman family. We've got a photo of Mom and Dad. Paul: Yep, there they are.
Kevin: So that's the fam. Paul: Well, my dad up until... I, well, I was born in England, and my dad's from, uh, Newcastle, New South Wales. My mom's actually from South Wales. So my dad always used to say he's from the new part of South Wales. That, that's what, that was one of his lines. And, uh, and so he was in the theater in the West End in London. He and Topol and Michael Crawford sort of were the top three guys. And so I grew up with my dad in the theater.
Paul: My dad switched and became a Baptist minister, but he was in charge of the music. So he was never a, a reverend or a preacher, but he, he was in charge of the music. So therefore, always around music. But my parents made everything so fun. My dad kind of-- my mom and dad came to every sporting match. They'd take me. I had a band. My first band was called Childish Behavior. Paul: Yes. Paul: No, but, um, and they used, they used to let us rehearse in the living room every Friday night, and they'd drive me to every gig. They came to everything. They were... And s- so fun, my dad used to play cricket up the hall in the house. They were such amazing parents, and they both did not have incredible parental experience. But one thing I learnt in my mid-20s was to forgive them for what they didn't do and get it w- from wherever else I needed it, therapists, uncles, um, chosen family. But to forgive them for being human. And once I did that, we be- I, I was able to embrace them as friends and, and, and as I said, my dad and I
Talk for a bit. Paul: he, he, yeah, we had to fight for it- me and the old man, because he just always saw the straight line, and I've never seen one, and so he just, he, he, he and I clashed so much. Kevin: So how, how, how long a period was this over where it went difficult, what age did it get difficult, and then- Paul: From birth to about 25. Paul: Yeah, he, he just, um, he j- as I said, he was just a person that loved, um, formats. Paul: He was an actor. He, he wasn't a writer or a director, he was an actor. And he loved, "Here's the, here's what you do, and just repeat it eight shows a week." Paul: Never in my life have I ever done anything twice the same way. Paul: I probably should sometimes, but I just can't. I just can't do it, and so we were so different that we really had to fight for it, and yet we found a friendship, and it was beautiful. But it was even difficult up until, you know, before he died, we'd argue about politics and religion a lot. Not, not arguing in a bad way, but like a good, passionate discussion. Paul: Like, g- not being able to have the closeness, say, with your dad, how did that f- affect you growing up? Paul: Oh, gee, that's a good question. Um-
I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I think it's too complex and too knit into it. Paul: When I grew up- When, when I grew up, my, my, uh, my, some of my, um, the ones I grew up with, their parents divorced. Paul: That was terrible for them. But then later on in life, and I apologize, Mom, if you happen to be watching and listening to this, but we all got together a bit later on and had a discussion to say, you know, "Well, your dad just up and went, gone." And, and I talked about, uh, with them, I said, "It's, my dad was there, and he was a great dad, and, and I loved him, but there was always this distance that we couldn't breach." And it was like we couldn't make the contact, and they agr- they all agreed that they, they felt that that was harder on a boy growing up to see a dad and not be able to connect than to have one that's gone out the door. Paul: Yeah, probably.
Paul: I think that I've been talking to my dad quite a bit the last two years and apologizing to him for being such a... Sorry, Sunday morning. Paul: Filter seven. Uh, I just think I tried to change him instead of accepting him from the way, way he was too much. I think that's... So I've just been focusing on my lane, which is why I found it difficult to answer, because it's a great question. But I've just focused so much on my lane with all the relationships that I've had that are broken and all the s- the issues that I've had. I've just been really thinking of taking responsibility for what I bring and spending less time thinking about what they bring. Um, because my dad grew up with a, a very, very abusive mother and a very passive father, and I don't think he ever fully healed from it. Paul: I don't think in, in that generation there was as much focus on mental health. I think that's a great thing about today is people are thinking more about it, uh, which is good. Especially, I mean, I think maybe women have led that charge for a long time, but us guys are a bit slow catching on. So, uh, so I, once I understood that, so when I was 20- Two, I just hated everybody except my grandma in Wales. So I went to Wales to try to find out why. And, uh, and I spent a few days with her, and then I went to London where we...
And I interviewed and stayed with all the people that knew my parents, 'cause I just, I thought, "If I understand their story, I might get this." And so once I started to understand their background and what they grew up with, I started to understand that they had actually done a way better job than they were parented. Paul: And I was too blind and arrogant before that, and reactive, to even think that I should do that. Paul: Um, but- Kevin: That was exactly, that was exactly how I processed with my dad. I took him away and learnt to get behind the scenes, and then I realized, probably what you did, that everybody is broken. Everybody's doing the best that they can.
Your parents did the best that they can with the ha- with the cards that were dealt them. And somewhere in there I got to the same place where it's like, "Okay, why am I being so judgemental against them? And why shouldn't I just learn to love?" Paul: And my mum, my mum never met her father. He, he, uh, came back for three weeks during World War II to Wales. Oi oi. Paul: Came back, and, um, she was conceived, and then he went off to war, and she never met him. Paul: Never even had a dad. She didn't have any brothers and sisters, nothing. And, um, so just even understanding that gave me so much understanding into her and understanding my dad's story. Um, but I'm proud to say the last 30 years, plus years, my parents have been two of my best friends. Paul: And there, there's nothing they don't know about me, nothing we didn't talk about. Paul: On the edge of breaking down. Paul: So, um, let's get to music again. So, so where did your love and your passion for music... Obviously it came from your, your dad's theater days, but where did it spring from for you when you did start music? Paul: I don't mean to block this answer, but I don't have a passion for music at all. Paul: No, I don't, I don't think about music. That's interesting. I don't listen to it much. I don't even know why I do it, and I surprise myself with what I can do, 'cause I don't know I can do it. Paul: I shocked myself, and I sort of sabotaged my song, 'cause he's a guitar player. And I was like, "Phew, how about that?" So I don't really think about music. I, I feel j- I feel more comfortable sitting here talking to you than I do playing. Right. But for whatever reason, when I play, I do music.
Paul: I don't really think about it. I, I'm more interested in people than music. Most musicians are introverts, and the music is their voice. That's how they speak. Which is why they feel so, um, spent by having to deal with people. It's not that they don't like people, it's that that music is their voice. Yeah. Paul: I'm not saying it's an excuse, but for me, I'd rather do the meet and greet than the show I'd rather meet people in the lobby- Yeah ... and talk to them. And, you know, last night just before I sang at the show, there was a group of people and I just wanted to say, "Let's just go down the pub and have fish and chips.
Hey, what do you reckon?" You know, that's, I wa- I wanted to do that more than sing. Paul: So I don't really understand why I stuck at music. I, I think, partly I think it was because the only, it was the only place... No, let me say that again. I had no idea growing up that I had, I had no idea when I became a late teenager that I had a, a personality, a bit of a personality disorder that came from, from being beaten up and bullied everywhere I went. 'Cause it wasn't just one kid, it was like the whole school, the whole camp, the whole youth group, my whole street. I just couldn't avoid it. And I didn't really realize that when I climbed up here and I was sitting up here, I felt safe, and all of my issues became superpowers. The dyslexia, the ADHD, the everything that I had when I was up here became something that people, it helped people. But as soon as I went down there, it just was a nightmare. Paul: And of course- that's not gonna work in life. In real life, that does not work. So relationships found me out, which is why I haven't made a record for 11 years. Why I hardly do any shows is because I decided I wanted to be a good man rather than a better performer. And plus it was, it was, it, my, my gift's in autopilot. There's enough coal in that engine to let it run for many years. Paul: And so I was a master manipulator. I was extremely codependent.
I didn't know what that was till therapy. I wasn't present. I didn't even know what that meant. Paul: And so, uh, I've never really been passionate about music, but it's more what it does and, and where it gets to and, and how it can be a source of encouragement to people and bring them joy. I think I like that more. And then I don't really understand how I can do it. Paul: But I've watched people sing my songs on YouTube, and apparently I'm okay 'cause it's, a lot of it's really bad. Paul: That's not how that goes. Does that sound cocky? I didn't mean it to be No, no, no, not at all. Kevin: I think you have a classic communication gift. And like people say to me, "What gift do you have?" Uh, mine's a communication gift, but I'll use whatever, whatever tool is available to me- Yeah ... whether it's a guitar or whether it's- Paul: I'd like to be like a, the, I'd like to own a restaurant and just be the front of house guy. I'd be raging if that, I'd love that. Kevin: Well, listen, you did have a great deal of element of success, uh, in the Paul Calman Trio. Um, we got a few photos up there, so we'll get a few photos up to have a look. Paul: To be fair, that audience, I was a little bit lighter- ... back in those days. It wasn't- But someone did grope you on that show, I remember. Paul: Oh ... like have you got something from your, from your heyday when things were really happening, like a song, something that really just- Paul: Heyday numbers, mate, let me tell you. No, I don't know. Let me think. Uh, heyday number. All right. Okay. Paul: This song was inspired by the rhythm playing of Keith Richards from the Rolling Stones. And I will say this as an introduction to this song. There's something you said about reclaiming music. Paul: Okay. I can't look at it without crying. Uh, uh, yeah, so I was singing in pubs three to five nights a week in Melbourne. Paul: CDs were sold. Before Spotify. Yeah, oh, ugh. Paul: 2 million streams. So what, mate? I made $4. Thank you. Uh, shocker. Um, you're welcome. You're welcome to the music, by the way. Have it. Enjoy it. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Paul: Uh, but I was singing in pubs, and so I was singing cover songs and I, I wanted to start writing my own songs more. But, uh, i- they've gotta be up and en- engaging to line up with the hits, you know? Paul: So I, so those, the songs that I started writing were personal lyrics based on teachings of Jesus, but in a pop song. But they were, like, three stages back from obvious. So if you, if you'd read the scriptures, you would get all of them. Paul: Slim pickings these days when everyone wants to tell God what he already knows- Yeah, I know ... and you don't get a gig unless you do that. Paul: Sometimes you gotta run into the arms of danger
Sometimes you gotta be the sacrifice
Sometimes you gotta say things that don't come easy
Paul: I'm just messing with you. They say just follow your heart. Yeah, but what if it lies? Paul: God only knows how to play this game called life and living. So hold me, yeah. Paul: Light a candle in the wind
Running from the things that could save my life Well, you know I tried. Paul: Tried to make you love me. That's called codependence. I did not know that when I wrote it. Paul: Some people always want just a little more than they're given. Ain't that the truth, Sam?
And when it's finally caught, well, it loses its life
I only knows how to play
The window pane tonight. Paul: Stop me Running from the things that could save my life. Would you sing back to me? God only knows. Paul: God only knows. God only knows. God only knows. Next level. Paul: Oh, you go... I'm out. Oh, yeah. Paul: You don't like the Bee Gees? I love the Bee Gees.
Light a candle. Get a windowpane tonight. Paul: Not on the one three, two and four. One, two, three, four. One, two. Hold me. Paul: Unless you're Pentecostal, one and three. Let it kill the window pane tonight. Paul: Stop me Running from the things that could save my life
Kevin: I get it Wow, man. Kevin: Mate, listen, uh, I asked a few people about what's your favorite Paul Coleman song, and they, they, one said a song, but it was an Elvis song, and I had to correct them. Paul: My, their favorite song of mine is the Elvis song. Kevin: No, I said to them, "What's your favorite Paul Coleman song?"
And they said, "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" Kevin: I said, "You, you're on the wrong planet, man." But, but, three of them Paul: I was at the, um... What do you call, what do they call the DMV here? Paul: Transport. Transport. I was there in Franklin, Tennessee, and I knew all the ladies, um, 'cause I went in and talked to them. Paul: And, uh, and I went in one day and I said, "I want a different kind of license plate." Paul: They said, "What about the Elvis one?" I said, "Great." And it was $80 extra. Paul: And I said, "What if I turn around and sing an Elvis song to everyone in the line, would you give me a discount?" Paul: She goes, "Well, we'll see how good it is."
And I turn around and I go, "Love me tender, love me sweet." Paul: And she gave me $40 off. That is a true story. Kevin: That's a true story. Paul: I can verify that. Well, there you go. So they, so they weren't far off then. Paul: Maybe I'm picking up something. But th- and it's easily insulting, yeah. Paul: But majority l- came up with the song Fill My Cup. Paul: Oh, yeah. Paul: Would that be right? Is it, is that what you s- Yep. Yeah, okay. Paul: Let's change microphones and go ahead. Paul: Can I have the guitar just a little louder up here, please? Um, Mike, Jeff, Steven, Nathan. Paul: Nathan. Barry
Talk a bit about it first maybe? Paul: So this is, once again, I think I didn't really realize till many years later that I would sometimes write very sad lyrics and put them in a nice melody and just sort of feel like I broke even. Paul: You know, it's like going to church on Sunday night and going to the pub afterwards. Paul: You just break even, you know what I mean? It's like having a Carlton supporter and a Collingwood supporter. Paul: It's like having a, a New South Wales rugby supporter and a Queensland. It's, it's just break even. Paul: You know, you just kind of, yeah. So this, these lyrics are all about absolute heartache and disconnection, and yet it's, it's set in a nice melody Paul: Fill my cup to the top with running water. Call me out and show me how. Paul: Fill my cup to the top with running water. Call me out and show me how. Called on you lately. Paul: Come on and rescue me. Feel like a calendar from another year. This barren ground. Paul: These bones are dry and ready. Break bread and wine, but still I'm feeling so empty
Fill my cup to the top with running water. Paul: Call me out and show me how. Fill my cup to the top with running water. Paul: Call me out and show me how
Sick of this seesaw of going up and down. Paul: I see the rescue lord, some days I'd rather drown. Love is a lesson I never learned in school. Paul: I was sick in bed that day, so I played a fool
With running water. Paul: Call me out and show me how. Fill my cup to the top with running water. Paul: Call me out and show me how
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Listen, I closed my eyes 'cause I had to concentrate to sing that in tune and play and sing that at the same time, 'cause that's not easy for my brain. Kevin: It's a great song. Yeah, it's a great song. It's a great song. Kevin: When you wrote, wrote the lyrics Call Me Out, so when you were writing that, so was that a season where you were looking to God for change or something like that? Paul: I don't think that that season's ever been over. Paul: That season's been my whole life. I- have you guys ever read the, um, the Bible? Paul: 66 books for the price of one. It's all right. Paul: Um, but there's this scripture that, that always hit me, it still does, where Jesus is giving these teachings, and his teachings w- were not sermons, they were stories mostly. Paul: ironically, in Christian music, if you tell a story that's a parable that people don't understand, by 45 seconds in they won't play it. Paul: I find that a little ironic. But anyway, uh, he was giving this teaching and he was doing an analogy and, um, a bunch of his followers just said, "Nah, that's too weird.
We're out of here." Paul: And he turns to his mates, including the ladies, by the way, not that they're mentioned, but they funded the whole deal. Paul: They were, they were there at the cross- They did ... and the two men actually believed first, but go girls. Paul: Uh, there's only 12 apparently. But he turned to them, he turned to his closest friends and said, "Do you wanna leave too?" Paul: And I think it might've been Peter, I'm not sure, but he said, "Well, where else are we gonna go?" Paul: Like, like literally, I taught religion, I taught ethics. Paul: I read a lot, I read a lot of everything. I read Hindu, uh, philosophy. Paul: I read, I read a lot, and there's no one like Jesus of Nazareth. Paul: Whether you believe he was God or not, no one can ever tell you or manipulate you into believing that, and I would never even try. Paul: I can't change myself, so I'm not gonna have a good crack at changing you. Paul: But no one made his claims, and for me, no one spoke like him. No one did what he did. Paul: And so I relate with that. Well, where else am I gonna go? Paul: Like, you're the one that has... You're the way, the truth, and the life. Like, you're it. Paul: And even though I'm broken, even though I don't understand, even though sometimes I wait for you to get a bit ahead and just catch you up on the binoculars, and even though sometimes I'm like, "Nah, nah, I'm good," I'm like, "Oh, time to catch up." Paul: Like, what, what else am I gonna do? And whether he died, raised from the dead or not is up to everyone to say whether they believe or not, but he's still the only one that said it, and if it's true that he did, then that's pretty interactive. Paul: I mean, Muhammad, can't talk to him. Paul: We say let's avoid that whole thing at this time.
What do you think? Yeah. Paul: Should we move on? Let's move on. Let's move on. Paul: I just do have a lot of friends who are, who are Muslims, and we discuss these all the time, so I say it in that context. Paul: I'm not trying to be a hater. Kevin: Yeah. We, we stay caught up around here. Kevin: Like, if someone predicts their own death, burial, and resurrection, pulls it off, I'm pretty much going with whatever he says when it comes to the other side. Paul: I kind of wish I'd said that, actually, come to think about it. Paul: You should be like a... Oh, wait, you are a pastor. Kevin: Okay. Kevin: So heyday's happening. It's all happening. Kevin: You're traveling all over the place. Just like everything is going wonderful, and then suddenly, like the Paul Carmody Trio and then personal things start to wobble and fall off. Paul: Yeah, so I ended the band because I was just a mess. Paul: I think I'd run as far as I could with the fuel I had in the tank, and it was all shame and fear and rejection and, and I think I ran as far as I could. Paul: And also my wife and I were very disconnected, and so I ended the band and tried to fix that and couldn't. Paul: And honestly, I don't blame her for divorcing me at all. Paul: I would've divorced me a lot earlier You know, I, I couldn't... When you c- when you don't lo- when you hate yourself, you can't really love other people very well. Paul: And so I started to realize that I just hated myself and, uh, and felt like an imposter. Paul: And honestly, I still struggle with it every day. I struggle with it every day. Paul: When I was sitting down there about to come here, I was battling it. Paul: Um, nine weeks ago I was in a hotel room for nine days with depression. Paul: I couldn't even get out, get out of bed. And so I still battle with that. Paul: I still battle with seeing myself the way God sees me, and it's so much easier for me to see everyone else that way, but it's hard for me 'cause my mirror lies to me, and I have lots of masks. Paul: So I've just, I'm just ripping them off. I'm done. I'm so sick of it. Paul: And, uh, and I do believe that God loves me, and my identity is I'm his kid. Paul: That's who I am, if you wanna know how I identify. Uh, it's 2026, you gotta- Just saying. Paul: No, I'm just saying. I actually love the fact that the younger generation is so focused on identity. Paul: I think it's brilliant, um, because I never thought about that much, or maybe I should've thought about it more. Paul: So I just wanted to go, "That's how I identify. I'm God's kid." Paul: Before I'm anything else, that's what I've realized. That's who I am. Paul: And, but it's, it's, uh, to, to shut down those voices. Paul: So when you're talking about that period, I don't look back on my life and feel very proud of it. Paul: I just don't. Yeah. I don't think I've lived a great life. Paul: And yet I've also realized that, well, so what? Like, so what? Paul: I, I got friends that are smashing it and, uh, I'm homeless, and I don't even care. I'm, I'm good. Paul: Mostly. No, I'm good. I'm good. But I just, I, I... It's taken me everything to finally accept that when God looks at me, he goes, "That's my kid." Paul: Like, "Yeah, but what about..." He goes, "I know about that." Paul: "What about..." "Yep, yep, yep. I know. I know. But I still crazy about you, Polly Pops." Kevin: So what w- yeah. You can give me a hand there. I'll stop it. Kevin: You can give me a hand because that, it's the, it's the highest form of human maturity when you actually take responsibility for who you are. Paul: Really? Yeah. This is very encouraging. You, you've kind of hit- I didn't feel the pain ... you've kind of hit, I didn't know you hit it. Paul: You, you've kind of hit it. So but was there, do you think anything where you said you felt like an imposter at all like that growing up? Paul: Well, when you get nominated- If you're grabbing onto that for singing about God's love and your wife divorces you, divorces you because you're a... Then That's a bit of a sting. Kevin: Yeah, it's kind of a, bit of a, bit of a ding on the ground. Paul: And you know she's right. Kevin: Yeah. Paul: You know she's right. Paul: So I think it was, uh, I just ran to the end. Paul: I, I've, I've- there's a, there's a record I did.
A record. Kevin: A record. Paul: That I did, um, that you guys, I'd love you to listen to. Paul: And honestly, if you listen online, I'm not gonna get paid, so it's not really a paid ad. Paul: Um, but it's called From the Saltland to the River, and I went from the divorce court to the tattoo parlor. Paul: I've only got two tattoos. I don't really want a lot more, but this one is my kids' names. Paul: That's so I don't forget them. Um, Kevin: well, that's why, that's why you can't get a gig, mate, as a worship leader. Paul: Oh, I see. Paul: You see, I don't believe you term worship leader, but that's just me. Kevin: There you go. Paul: And then these, these, this is my, this is my life scripture, Jeremiah 17:5-8, and it says, "Cursed is the person whose strength is just in themselves and whose heart turns away from God.
They're like a barren tree in the wasteland." Paul: "In the salt land where nothing lives. They live a, a parched and lonely life like a tumbleweed on the prairie. No root, no foundation, always thirsty, and they never, they always compare themselves to others." Paul: And I read that and went, "Yeah, that's like 15 records of material right there." Paul: But the next part says, "But blessed is the person whose trust and confidence is in God. They're like a tree planted by the river that sends its roots out to the stream below." Paul: "They have no worries in a time of drought." I like that. No worries. No. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie. Kevin: Aussie. Paul: In a time of drought. Yeah.
And, uh, and they always bear fruit. Paul: And so that record is called From the Saltland to the River, and it's, it's, it's, it's... it goes from acoustic to rocking, but it also follows a story, and it starts off with songs like Is That It? and The End of Myself. And, and it was that realization of like, "Okay, I've been singing about this.
I've been awarded for singing about this, but I don't, I don't really know the Lord. I don't know his... I don't... I know my voices." Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. '
Paul: Cause when you walk into a room and you're led by shame and codependence and fear- And then you say, "God told me." Paul: Fair chance you've got that one wrong because they're not the, that's not the loudest voice.
Yeah. Paul: So when you add over-religiosity with not, with mental bad health, that's why people are crazy. God told me. Paul: Nah, mate, I don't think so. I think you need to go to therapy and then maybe try again. Paul: And I was that person, I think. So the fruit of my life, my relationships were, were jacked. Paul: The two guys in the trio, I totally alienated them.
I was a horrible leader. On stage, amazing. Off stage. Paul: And so I had to, when I started therapy, I s- I, I had to win them back over. Paul: It took me two years to apologize to them and, and, um, they're gracious, beautiful men. Paul: Um, and so, uh... Matter of fact, I was singing at this retreat and there was this retired admiral, and as I...
I was just singing around a campfire to 15 people at this retreat, and he came up to me afterwards and he said, "How long have you been sober?" Paul: He goes, "How long you been sober?" Paul: And I said, "Well, I've been addicted to many things like shame and, and anger and, and rejection, but I've never been addicted to a substance like alcohol." Paul: And apparently I went through the 12 steps in chronological order, and I didn't even know. Kevin: Right. Paul: That journey of repentance and facing- your stuff is similar. Paul: Did I even answer the question there? I have no idea. Kevin: I don't know. Paul: I just suddenly went- What are you talking about? Kevin: I was so fa- I was so fascinated with the story.
Okay. Paul: I was just, I was just going on. Thanks. And my ph- and my phone, my watch is buzzing in my arm like mad and I can't answer it- because I'm pretty sure we've been told we gotta wrap up. Paul: And theaters should put little things in the seat that make you- Kevin: Yeah. Paul: You know. Yeah. Matter of fact, we could have them for these presentations. Kevin: We're just keeping going as best they go do. Wake up. Paul: One more song or, uh, what, what do you wanna ask? Paul: I'll let you charge it. Kevin: w- just tell me what, what would you say to yourself now, knowing what you know now, if you could talk to your 20-year-old self, what would you say? Paul: Stupid little... No. I would say, um, Kevin: well, actually Paul: At least, but I did kind of do Paul: I'll give... I'll, I'll just give you a verse and chorus of it This song is meant to sound like a note that you don't want to get out of
Are you gonna let me love you? Paul: When are you gonna let me in?
Gonna let me love you Try it all day today. Paul: And tomorrow I'll do it all over again
But you're a bowl, but you're a bowl, but you're, but you're a bowl, but you're a bowl of condemnation. Paul: But you're a bowl... One sec. But you're a bowl of condemnation. What chord is it? Paul: Um, don't feel bad for me. I, I absolutely don't care right now. I'm just gonna get this right. Paul: But you're a bowl of condemnation.
Constant need of affirmation. Runs to isolation. Yes, you are. I got it. Paul: But I'm a wave of adoration. That's gonna break in your direction. I'm the voice of resurrection. Yes, I am. Paul: So when are you gonna let me love you?
Are you gonna let me in? Paul: When are you gonna let me love you? I tried all day today, and tomorrow, I'll do it all over again. Paul: So I tried to write a song from God's perspective to me, which is very dangerous. Paul: It's much better to do what Christian artists do, and that's just copy the Bible, put chords to it, and then just write your name on the bottom 'cause it's out of copyright. Paul: But I tried to, um... But, um, words of music. Chris Tomlin. Paul: But anyway, I might- it might have been King David. That's fine. Paul: Um, but I tried to write a song, you know, like, "When are you gonna let me love you? Uh, when, when are you gonna let me in? When are you gonna let me love you? 'Cause I've tried all day today, and tomorrow I'll do it all over again." Paul: Yeah. "You're a wave of... You're a ball of condemnation, um, trying to fight for my affection. You're..." Whatever. Paul: So, um, what was the question again? Kevin: Younger self. That's what Paul: I would say. Paul: That was especially younger self. I would say, I would say, um, I would say exactly what I said to Dan and Roz's kids. Paul: Um, and they got married two day, three days ago.
Right up back there, right there. Paul: Give us, give them a wave. Come on, give them a wave. Give them a wave. Kevin: Congratulations, Paul: guys. And, uh, I sang at their wedding because truly, more than anything, I'm a wedding singer. Paul: That is the truth. That's what I am. Um, anybody? Paul: Uh, but when I left their kids, I looked in their eyes and I told them, "You are such a great kid.
You are so fantastic." Paul: And if I had been able to receive that despite all, all the, what I see in my mirror, if I could have understood that the God of this universe says, "Listen, I'm the perfect parent. Uh, the feminine, the masculine, I love you. And just so you know, you don't have to do anything for that.
Who you are is enough." Kevin: That would've been good to get at the start. Yes. Kevin: That would've changed everything. Paul: Although, I have also, through therapy and prayer and help and books and music and people reminding me, I have also forgiven myself for not knowing that. Paul: And that's been one of the hardest things, to forgive myself. Paul: Um, but Jesus said, "Love others as you love yourself." Kevin: That's correct. Paul: So if you don't love others, well, hear it from your Uncle Paul. Paul: Look in the mirror and say, "Hey, listen, I forgive you. God help me forgive myself. Help me to see myself the way you see me," because then that's a, that's a game changer. Paul: But I, I'm not gonna lie.
It's taken me a long time, and I'm still... I'm closer than before, but I'm sitting here right now, I can genuinely tell you that I'm closer than I've ever been to living in that. Kevin: Mate, thank you so much for being so honest and open with us. Paul: Oh, I could've been way more honest Kevin: than that. That's just, yeah. Kevin: You, you can't, you can't be too open.
We haven't got a profanity buzzer. No, we're just kidding. Paul: Profanity Kevin: buzzer? Paul: Was I profane? Kevin: No, no, just saying that- Paul: I did mouth one, didn't I? Sorry about that. Paul: You see, in church, you can gossip but you can't swear. Paul: Uh, and honestly, if you had to pick one- Kevin: Yeah, no ... Paul: gossip's way worse. Kevin: It is, right. Paul: And- I'm not saying we should swear.
No emails, please. Oh, wait. Kevin: I love your heart, man. Paul: Sorry about that. Kevin: There we go. Sorry. Paul: This is the talking microphone. I told Kevin: you. Kevin: But I, I do wanna do one more thing. Um, I asked you, we asked you to bring something that w- was sentimental value to you, and you told me, "I don't have any sentimental value- Paul: Thanks for saving Kevin: this to the end
Kevin: sentimental value except for one person. So, uh, I'm gonna put that photo up now. So, um, you wanna talk a little bit about... 'Cause we asked someone to bring an object, and he said, "I don't, I'm not sentimental about objects," but this lady here
And you warned me it might be difficult.
Paul: I'm not, I, I'm, I don't feel difficult, I don't feel embarrassed, I don't feel ashamed. Um, she's just the person that showed me what unconditional love was, and she still does. I'm living with her right now in a retirement village.
Kevin: Those concerts Paul: should be interesting.
I was shopping with her the other day and I heard a bone crack and I forgot where I, I forgot where I was. I was like, I felt so bad. It sort of gave me a nice ... Um, yeah, she's the person, she's the one that showed Paul: me unconditional love. And in August, she travels with me. Paul: I just, I just drag her around seven countries in Europe in 19 days. Paul: Um, and she's, was in the States with me before that, and she's coming back to the States with me, so it'll be five months together. Paul: And, um, and, and, uh, at this festival, hide outside of Boston, uh, on the Thursday night on the main stage, I'm second to the closing act. Paul: Um, don't care who they are, they're opening for me.
Um, joking. That's just a joke. Just a joke. Paul: Just an Aussie joke. Uh, but I've, I wrote a song for her called My Little Hero, and, um, I'm gonna sit her on a stool on the stage and sing it to her. Paul: Aw. And I've got a, a queen's cape that I'm gonna put on her, then I'm gonna slow dance with her. Paul: Aw. And, uh, 'cause she's my little hero and, and, and she's so zany, and she's so funny, and she is just love personified. Paul: She hugs her way from one side of the world to the other. Paul: She walked up to this, uh, African American guy outside Starbucks in an airport in North Carolina, and she goes, "Want a hug?" Paul: And he's like, "Huh?" She just hugged him. The guy just melted. Paul: You know, and, uh, she's just the, oh, five foot two inch wrecking ball of God's love. Paul: That's what she is. And so the chorus says, "And, and when I get to heaven, I'm gonna knock right on her door, 'cause she put all her treasures there. Not, not, not in the world before. And the, and the m- and the Savior will, um, put a crown on her and says, 'Welcome home, my kiddo. What a day that'll be for you, my little hero.'"
Did I just say that I love that noise? Kevin: Yeah. Paul: Because- So do we ... it's just, um, I love that, I love the fact, I j- I just, I like when the kids are running around, too. Paul: I just, I like, I like disorder sometimes, and I like order as well. Paul: But I hear the Lord, I hear the Lord in that cry, you know? Yeah. Paul: And sometimes it's people that have less ability that show us so much more of God's love than when we're clever. Paul: Um, I just wanted to mention that. But, but yeah, she's, she's my little hero. Paul: She's... And if you've ever met my mum, anyone here met my mum? Well, you need to. Paul: If you need love, she's- Bring Kevin: her next time. Paul: Yeah. Paul: I might actually charge because- ... I might be able to afford a, I might be able to afford my own pla- Yeah, but she's, she's it. Paul: She is it. A Wel- Welsh woman.
Kevin: So before we wrap this up, is there, is there anything that you wanna talk about? Kevin: The... Anything else that you wanna talk about? Or is there a song or something that you'd like to wind it up with? Paul: Well, I'll tell you what I'd like to do. Paul: I'd like to come back here and do my own show at some point. Paul: 'Cause this is a great room because it's wide, so you don't, you're not looking down. Paul: So maybe, uh, hmm, maybe in December, January, or February. This is a bit sneaky, isn't it, Peter? Paul: Yeah, sort of.
Kevin: You just worked Paul: yourself Kevin: into a gig, man. Paul: Win the crowd maximus. Kevin: You just, you, you manipulated the pastor to get a gig. Kevin: You like that? Paul: I sure did. Proud of it. Paul: No. Uh Do you want a song to leave with? You want a song? All right
Sam, what an encourager. Paul: Good man, Sam. I am Sam I am
Oh, mate
The one about my mum? Yeah. No, I won't go through that. Paul: It goes, um, wanna tell you about my little hero. She's a five foot two inch wrecking ball. Paul: She's an atom bomb of love. In all the right ways, she's a little bit of a weirdo. Paul: But to the desperate heart learning, she's a true gift from above. Paul: When I get to heaven, I'm gonna knock right on her door. Paul: She put all her treasure in that world not before. Paul: And the Savior will put a crown on her and say, "Welcome home, my kiddo." Paul: Oh, what a day, what a day that'll be for you. Yeah, my little hero.
Okay, one more song. Paul: Uh, the best thing about this song is I didn't write it and, uh, and it's one of my favorite songs to sing. Paul: But the funny thing is when I was, uh, in Europe one time I was staying with some people and I'd just put out a new album, my last album. Paul: And the lady said to me, she goes, "You know, I like your new album, but I much prefer your songwriting on this song." Paul: And I didn't write it. Kevin: Perfect. Paul: I didn't tell her. Paul: It's called If I Was Jesus If I was Jesus, I'd have some real long hair A robe and some sandals is exactly what I'd wear. Paul: I'd be the guy at the party turning water to white grape juice. Paul: Yeah, me and my disciples, we'd have a real good time
If I was Jesus, I'd have some friends that were poor. Paul: I'd run around with the wrong crowd. Man, I'd never be bored. Paul: I was thinking of you I would heal me a blind man, get myself crucified by politicians and preachers, not you, who got something to hide
I was G
Flowers tea I come back from the dead Walk on some water just to mess with your head. Paul: I know your darkened secrets. I look you right in the face. Paul: And I tell you I love you with amazing grace
I don't have a sound guy, so I have to do that myself. Paul: I begin here in a door
While I was hanging on your cross
If I was Jesus Kevin: Straight into it, another one wrong. Kevin: Another one bites the dust Paul: Rando. Kevin: There we go. It's all in there, man. Kevin: It's good fun. Paul: Let's just play One Direction. I went with Queen. Kevin: Well, mate, thank you so much. Paul: Yeah. Kevin: Would you thank Paul- Thank you ... for just coming and just sharing. Kevin: And we will take you up on that, um, on that gig. Paul: No, I'd like to because, um, if you just- Totally. Uh, that's ADD. Paul: Do, does it happen to you and you just go, "What was that noise?" Yeah. "Something, some squirrel." Paul: Uh, I think if you can, it... I, I love, I love Aussies so much. Paul: I just love how rough around the edges we are. Paul: And I like how Aussies just, if it's religion, they're just, it's not just they're not interested, they're violently not interested. Paul: I respect that. But if it's not, if it's, if it's something there, they're into it. Paul: And I've experienced that my whole life over here. So my advice would be, let's do a show here. Paul: Firstly, that'll help me. But, um- ... of course, I'll give it to the poor. I know. Paul: But, yeah, but also- Kevin: But you're homeless. You are the poor. Paul: Hey, I, I'll give it to myself. The Paul Coleman Retirement Fund. Let's start it up. Give generously. Paul: Uh, no, but invite, invite, buy tickets for a couple of people who, uh, would never think they could come to a church building and laugh and have fun. Paul: Yeah. Because that's kind of, they're my sweet spot, those people. Paul: You know, like, like the Roman centurion that Jesus said of a pagan pantheistic Roman centurion, "I've not seen greater faith in the whole country." Kevin: That's right. Paul: That's like him saying it to Mick Jagger. Kevin: Yeah. Paul: That, that might be a stretch, but you just be the preacher and finish it off. Paul: I, I'm starting to get a bit too off track. Kevin: Hang on, would you guys just thank Paul? Paul: They already did. That's enough. Kevin: Thank you. Well, thank you, Paul. You can disappear, brother. Paul: Really? Kevin: Yeah, get out of here. Go on, get out of here, brother. Take your phone. Kevin: Take your capo. Oh, no, I got your capo